Car use: a right or a privilege?

Harry, I don't think you can single out car travel. We all have to manage our carbon footprints which is how carbon rationing groups got started here. I don't mind if someone drives 5000 miles a year as long as they don't fly and they live off grid.

Needs and wants hmmmmm thats why we are in this climate change mess in the first place.  Personal wants and needs are placed far higher than that of the needs of the community, environment and the planet.

I do mind if someone drives 5 or 10,000 miles a year if they do it in a car alone!

Hi all, I would like to give my comments on this topic

Every thing you have done to mention the cycling comunity on our rights and comments on this are very meaningful, as well as our responsibilities. I agree driving is a privilege, not a right - but today's society - so "car dependent" - is changing this. We can use any kinds of means, as long as the most important is protecting the environment around our life!!!

Jim

Neil Pearson's comments are realistic about how we might make the car culture low carbon, but its still way off in the future. Its not just about coaxing Genghis Khan and his hordes to lower their horse use, however - all these posts seem to focus on the concept of "personal use",  Xtreme bikers - okay if you carry a couple of folders, work in an office and can cycle a reasonable distance, have somewhere to lock your bike up, can change into the clothes you're required to work in, don't have to drop children off to childcare on your way. Forgive the rest of us, the poor sods who rack our brains to think of a way we could live a different life. - don't know who might turn up to fix your drains or fit your condensing boiler or your solar panels, but I reckon they'll need a van, would love to invest in something low carbon, but can't charge you enough to cover the cost of doing it. Transport as a collective endeavour and local authorities making policy to promote green industrial units and shared low carbon transport would be a huge, but influential progressive move. But who would pay increased council tax for this? I'd say reducing emmission form residential properties (27% as a conservative estimate) and prioritising  the poorest communities with a really comprehensive policy would deliver a reduction in carbon, create new jobs and avert fuel poverty for low income individuals, would be one of the most effective and immediate ways of reducing carbon emissions and comaprable to any of the slight reduction in car use the posters are proposing and would be a more equitable and immediate gain from just one of a range of green taxes.

It seems so much (by no means all and there have been some very good points)  of the discussion about car use is about personal choices. The carbon tax thing is really an extensions of this, a variation upon consumerism.

I really think this path has been so well worn, and is not really getting anywhere. Let me take an analogy. We all know that that reducing the speed limits to 55mph on the road will have a considerable impact upon car emissions. Yet I suggest most of us don't drive at 55mph when we can drive faster. We would (more or less) if a 55mph speed limit were to be introduced. It is, as I have said elsewhere, it is almost as if there is not such thing as society. We need to be moving out of the personal life style choices (often accompanied by guilt and certainly potentially very inward) and should be discussing things more strategically e.g. the use of legislation. And at the broader level we should be talking about free public transport.

I wonder if much of the discussion focusing upon choices and life styles is because of a rejection, or lack of belief, in our capacity to organise at a broader level?

Adam

When I said the subject is well worn I was talking about the emphasis upon personal action and choices, not carbon credits.

I haven't got my head around carbon credits, can see some scope for credits for flying, but generally am wary because once again it seems like putting the whole emphasis upon individuals and their choices. We need to steer in the direction of governments organising on behalf of us all. For example a better transport network is more imporant than telling the individual to make the choice. I think of the difference between fighting over the crumbs, or rebaking the cake.

hello Peter and Harry,

The comments by all thus far are really interesting, for sure there are various  truths to be found in each comment made.

Its  a little sad that  mostly the only people that will see these wise ideas are people that have the time, interest and inclination to find and join a climate change based. In terms of contributions to greenhouse gases. Through simple mathamatics we can unearth multitude of global solutions to climate change that presently are put into practice inefficiently or not at all. For instance what is better one person that never uses a car, and perhaps never used a bicycle due to the carbon footprint involved in producing that, that happens to live next to ten neighbours that are only vaguely interested in climate change or turn the television over each time anything about climate change comes on, and all of them regularly fly. Some probably for weekend jaunts around Europe.  In terms of net production of greenhouse gases a larger reduction would be made if this forum with these wise words about reducing emisions was in their neighbourhood. On there doorstep, it was in a place that there children said was a cool place to be and that  may be the only reason they go their however through them going there the inescapable facts about flight emmisions, car use are presented to them as a part of the fabric  presented through renewably powered multi media displays and people such as those on this site defining and explaining  the reasons as to why ttaking flights around Europe with Ryan air is bad for the climate. and  if they don't change there lifestyles then by going with the best predictions of science they are effectively taking the food and water from their childrens mouths in forty, fifty years time. 

For people that live outside of areas with decent public transport, If 50%, yes 50% of the population of a town could be convinced to make a personal target of cutting back on five car journeys per week, an achievable target if presented effectively enough, then this would cause a far greater reduction in emisions than trying to talk them out of car use all together. As they would factor in immediate conveniance above long term environmental objectives.

When they  achieve their 5 trips less per week target, they will be convinced that it is feasible for them to reduce there carbon footprint  in other ways too, they won't feel guilty and powerless over this green, planet, climate,  thing hanging over them, they will feel good that they have made a change and are a part of the process and the solution. They will feel good about there achievment, rather than feeling alienated for not being perfect, this then puts them in a more resourceful mindset  where they are more likely to get really enthused about there lifestyle change and take many more further steps. They will get excited about sitting down to the family table and discussing how as a family theyucan join the cause. They will feel further enthused that their children understand this too and will be able to advise them due to what they have learned at school and they will feel the need to want to learn more than there children and therefore start independently researching it and quite possibly stumble across sites such as this. They will be on side and therefore a fellow advocate of more ecological living. They will have developed a new dialogue with their children and their children may start advising them to cut back or give up meat etc etc. They will take great pride in telling the neighbours about there new lifestyle choice and there neighbours, the joneses, will begin to follow suit and who knows they may even start car sharing together.

In addition to  getting a really good result out of Copenhagen, the challenge of today is undoing  the damage caused by the fifty generations that have gone before us, but also we have  to counteract all of the conditioning of mass consumption, and dumbing down  that dates back decades.  A significant proportion of the population sit on the fence about the environment, they get concerned once or twice a month or so for a few minutes, an then fill thir minds with other distractions.

 We have such a diverse world. Many people are  not interested about the enviornment. the whole issue of transport is considered nerdy and boring, yet it is these people too we need to convince to cut back on cars and take green options.. Some people are not intellectually driven and therefore no matter how many forums or wise words over the net, no matter how many protests, television adverts or pieces of paper that are given to them they will not get  interested. Why think about the enviornment when you can think about gizmos instead!  Work as a taxi driver for a month and you  see where thinking is at. Not just within your own circle, but within a complete cross section of society. Recently I met a girl from Morrocco in her thirties, she had never heard of climate change, global warming or the greenhouse effect. What, yes its true, The whole concept of being green or even thinking green meant nothing to her what so ever. Admitedly she is from a rural area, but the point I am making is that you live in a city surrounded by likeminded people it is easy to forget where so many other people are at.  

It boils down to effective communication. how do we get people like her and the ones that take a casulal flight across europe to become really interested, enthused, concerned enough to be willing to change their lifestyles and actively start changing it.  It  takes quite a bit of imagination on our part, yet it can be done. There are volumes of science to confirm that people learn the best when they are having fun, enjoying themselves, this is science that is as well endorsed as climate change itself yet the green movemnbet has largely not taken on board. It is  backed up by two nobel prize winners and over 100 years of experiments.. We are very much a peer pressure based society people will change there ways when they see that socially it is absolutely normal to make public pledges to reduce, stop car use or eating meat or promise to use ecover for the rest of their days. When people stop associating so much fear with climate change and see green or greener living as a smart considerate and practical lifestyle choice then great strides will be made.

 When it comes to radical immediate solutions to transport, there is an answer which would work very well in Europe and I havent seen it on any other forums etc. In South America,  they use a form of transport known  as Collectivos. This is minibus  transport that is like a cross between a bus and a taxi. For starters it  has all of the obvious community benefits such more sociable transport.On the front of the vehicle it has a sign saying roughly where it is going and it travels that route yet diverts to take people to their doors operating without a schedule.  They are a good cheap ecological way to get around and to catch one you could just flag it down or pick it up from a bus stop perhaps.

These could be applied in the UK for example for the suburbs of cities and greatly reduce car traffic especially when park and ride schemes are incorporated and car share schemes widely promoted as well within these more ecological vehicles.

They could be hybrid minibuses which are in production. Creating an unofficial network of these collectivos around London on the M25 and on primary routes into London such as M4 M3 M11 A3 etc.could work really well and get thousands of communters and school run cars off the roads every day. Not one person per vehicle bored out of there brains but twelve per vehicle chatting to there friends, other regular users each day. They would also not only create a new affordable  flexible transport system they would create hundreds of green jobs. They would work well anywhere in Europe and even better in the US where the public transport system is apparently almost non existant for much of the country.

In addition in hong kong they have raised walkways over roads. This may sound a little odd but it greatly increases walking speed in a straight line and you can span a large area in a city really quickly,  not having to wait for cars, traffic lights etc. Raised walkways would also be good. If they also incorporated  cycle roots making cycling safer and faster.  Partly, Solar charged extended golf cart vehicles made by Melix, Poland may also be a good city based eco transport option, that would be not only useful in Eastern Europe they would be good for western Europe too and produce many green jobs etc.

Successfully lobbying any one of the above options into practice could be a major step forward.  For many in cities not using a car is a practical ecological option. Live closer to nature  on renewable energy  a few miles from  nearest town or village, no matter where you are in the world often neither regular public transport nor cycling is an option. If collectivos can work effectively in South America, then they could also work anywhere in Europe, givng us another practical ecological transport option..Some people won't think about the ecological angle to start with, they may only take them as they are a new practical choice  however when these people are presented with the fact that they too have also made a good ecological choice it encourages them to take further good ecological choices. By providing a greener choice to many more reductions can be achieved in terms of greenhouse gas emisions than by expecting a few to make a complete choices. Well done to those that do but many smaller steps taken by the masses can be of equal or greater value too sometimes and end up in a far more radical emmisions reduction overall.

The ideal base for this form of transport system would be green lifestyle centres, so whilst people are catching them for practical reasons, buying organic veg whilst they are ther etc,  they are also learning about why they are doing the right thing for ecological reasons, which opens the door for people like us to be able to show them how they can make furthe changes, slighly arange there kitchen sink and gain an automatic herb garden outside there front window etc etc..

Lifestyle centres get forums and ideas like the many other good ideas on this site and others off the net and into the community. effectiveness of lifestyle centres that can be duplicated certainly  does not get the governments off the hook for setting strict targets,  it has the opposite effect, it  helps them realise that with cooperative effort in helping motivate communities and teach communities across the board they can set far  more stringent targets in greenhouse gas reductions, knowing that they don't just only get lobbied, they also get the infastructural support if they are prepared to set the highest standards could be a  major motovating factor in assiting them uin raising the benchmark.

A target is only achievable if you have the vehicle from which to achieve it. to achieve these targets means transforming society, which of course has to happen immediately. Putting ALL of the burden onto governments may be convenient, yet its not practical, realisiticor good for the planet.

. How many people in government really understand the practical application of living with renewable energy, of using old tea bags to make your trees grow better and stronger, know of permiculture, or even the scientific evidence that supports plantng by moon cycles. etc. If we want a green world we have to create it ourselves and they must provide us with the resources to do it, if they want to move beyond rhetoric and theory into practical application. What do they know about the pros and cons of using hemp rather than cement on roofs, the challenges of building with strawbales, the practical benefits in warmer climates for using strawbale houses etc. it is only through them embracing this kind of knowkledge  or using teachers such as the people that use this site can they ever hope to achieve the targets that we are all lobbying for them to establish in  Copenhagen.  

Lifestyle centres if brought to fruition in the most effective way could be our most significant step thus far towards winning against climate change, they enable us to join together in a model that with the help of the internet and governmentt assistance ie land and property rent free  provides a direct mirror effect to climate change. What is climate change? It is the result of billions of manmade actions, combined with natural phenominon such as volcanos etc. combining together to create a single force. If we combine our positive actions ie living off renewables, tree planting, building with hemp, growing algae etc. etc then we can create a mirror effect. If enough of us do it we could neutralise it.  Everyone learns better from practical hands on experience, it heightens interest in any field.

Imagine if a discovery is made about a new green building material, its cheaper and more practical to produce than the existing non green option. If that happened today it would probably either end up being discussed for the next ten years in specialist websites like this or if the inventor was into money, he would have to wait for a patent, gain backing and market it. . With lifestyle centres around the world it creates a third option for people that believe in the higher purpose of getting there innovations seen with people going to them regularly for leisure and natural lifestyle tutoring, universities of life and natural living where  the message of that discovery can be out around the world in every community within twenty four hours. The results applied globally within a week.  The results emailed through to all governments and local councils. Picked up by eager school children and the retirees of each country and sent around to all the building firms in the country within three weeks!

Thats addressing climate change on a paradigm shift basis and thats what lifestyle centres can achieve, efficiently.

As it happens, hemp bricks absorb and hold greenhouse gases.  The only help brick factory in Europe, based in Granada, Spain don't know of a drying process that can get these bricks solid in a practical time for them to be used in Northern Europe. (estimated five months drying time). We have developed a way of overcomming this and can get the bricks dry in less than 24 hours. Whilst on one hand this could transform green building in germany, France, UK etc. We have no way of furthering this knowledge at the moment due to time restrictions. If lifestle centres were in existance we would gladly network the idea for the greater benefit. this is one example and there must be thousands. ranging from netting used to hrvest morning dew in South America for providing a new source of water to designs for peddle powered juicing machines. This knowledge needs to be out in the community to be of use.

Thats where the greatest strides in us addressing climate change could  be made and politicians encouraged the most to set the strictest of targets, knowing that they have serious knowledge based bacfk up on a voluntary basis to form of infastructural support by people that really care about the future and  would be prepared to give up a Saturady morning to explain to the local community why driving a car is bad for the planet and riding a bike is good, or what type of insulation options exist and the pros and cons of using a solar hot water collector water heating systems or a million other subjects.etc.. They would each pay three pounds to participate. The sixty pounds raised could buy an acre of forest and pay entry for a school group to the Eden project etc... 

Every community has green thinkers and through this new level of community communication maybe we can  transform the world into a safe solution orientated society much more rapidly than other methods proposed thus far. Yes water powered transport would help too, but what chance have we got of that happening in the foreseeable future

Doesn't anybody else agree that a personal carbon credit allowance will make people think twice before zooming off at 85mph in their Ford estate to get their shopping? I feel like I must have missed a glaringly obvious drawback to the whole idea (apart from the fact that it is probably politically impossible).

Neal,

I am chair of a campaign in Manchester which is campaigning for a public transport system that is massively expanded, fully integrated, publicly owned and free at the point of use.  With such a system it should be possible for anyone to travel from any A to any B quicker, more comfortably and with a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions of the current congested and anarchic mess. See our website: www.freepublictransport.org.uk

You will find much more information about this topic, and also links to other campaigns around the world.

Sure someone will have to pay.  The chancellor has just revealed a further £38bn donation to the banks, partly so they can rebuild their capital base (and therefore make more profits for shareholders, and pay bigger bonuses to their bosses), and partly so they can insure hundreds of billions of potential losses with the taxpayer.  So not only are we taxpayers forking out well over £1000 each on average, we are also at risk of losing tens of thousands if and when their 'bad loans' finally default.  Now, £38bn would enable us to run a totally free bus service across the whole country for the next 20 years!!!  Why not use that money to protect the planet instead of bailing out the bankers?  And no, you won't get a refund if you 'stay at home instead'.  Just as I won't get a refund if I abstain from speculating on the financial casino we call a banking system.

I like the inspirational (if rather lengthy) contribution from Peter Hughes.  Lifestyle centres are an excellent idea.  They faciliate individuals to take positive action more effectively.  I agree that this is the only viable way of pressurising governments to change in a progressive direction.

I came to live in London and the UK partly becuase of the relatively good transport infrastructure albeit still Victorian in design.  In Africa you can't really get around without a car and although I drove for a while my eyes aren't really good enough anymore and being a single women I found it difficult to afford all the rip-off artists when it came to repair time. 

My idea is to get together with as many other people as possible who doesn't own or drive a car and form a CARFREE CLUB and use collective action to make our lives so much easier that we become the envy of all the car slaves out there - If there is anybody interested in this I would be glad to hear from them at:

free-to-be@tiscali.co.uk

cheers

su

Dear Roy,

You say: "£38bn would enable us to run a totally free bus service across the whole country for the next 20 years!!!"

    Sorry I'm so bad at accounting, but I can't quite balance "£38 billion" with "totally free" !

Would you mind very much if I simply get on your bus and buy an old-fashioned ticket for a few pence to take a short trip down the road?

Regards, Neal.